 |
GRANDE FINALE, one of the best-looking BITUSA bootlegs
in the vinyl era (above) and the description on THIS GUNS
FOR HIRE found in the accompanying booklet (below) |
A comprehensive list of vinyl bootlegs from the
BORN IN THE U.S.A. tour is available in the 12-page booklet called
Last Ride In A Pink Cadillac, which is included in
GLANDE FINALE 6LP box set comprising the entire last performance of the 1984-85 World Tour at Los Angeles Coliseum. In fact, this booklet is concise and a very useful reference to a total of nearly 100 live bootleg releases from this tour. In my opinion, the brief information given to each title and the evaluation of sound quality are overall accurate. According to this booklet, there are two different releases for
THIS GUNS FOR FIRE with the identical catalog number (Paladin Records 1959): one being the original (which is further divided into the first and second pressings) and the other copied off the original first pressing. The initial copy I obtained (and mentioned in
the last blog) exactly matched what is described for one of the two releases (
i.e.,
PAL A to
PAL J hand-etched in the dead waxes and housed in an indeed
sturdy box), confirming its identity as a piracy reproduction of the existing bootleg.
As
described in the booklet, this 5LP box is at least pressed twice from
the original plates. However, the first
and second pressings are easily distinguished from the record labels,
matrix numbers, and box packages.
 |
| Comparison of Disc 1 labels between the first (left two images) and second (right two) pressings. Track listing on the first pressing label is almost accurate with only a typo on Out In The "Streets", which is corrected on the second pressing label. As you can read, however, some of the
song titles on the second pressing are intentionally changed (but the correct titles are predictable because
the fake titles derive from the lyrics of the corresponding songs). |
 |
Paladin's calling business card
(taken from The Small Screen).
It is uncertain whether "Wire" is
his first name or not. |
Labels on the waxes: The first pressing comes with the black/light grey
Paladin H.G.W.T. 1959 labels, taken from
Have Gun, Will Travel, an old American television series (aired from 1957 to 1963 on CBS) starring Richard Boone as a non-archetypal Western hero called
Paladin. His
gun-for-hire
nature is probably the only relevance, that I can think of, to Springsteen (
i.e., the line
"this gun's for hire" is featured in the lyric of his
biggest selling single
Dancing In The Dark released in 1984) and is therefore used for the bootleg
title although the apostrophe (of "
gun's") is missing. For each disc, one label lists track information from both sides together
while the other is a picture-only label of Paladin posing with a gun. On the
other hand, the second pressing features the completely different labels
of silver/black
Wire P. Records, most probably named after "
Wire Paladin"
printed on his business card emblazoned with his symbol, a knight chess
piece. The card design is reproduced on the bottom center of the rear
box package of both pressings (By the way, I have never watched this TV program before and so, the above-described information may contain errors).
 |
Matrix numbers on Side 1 of Disc 1 of
the 1st pressing copy |
Matrix numbers: Let's take Side 1 of Disc 1 for instance. The first pressing has the hand-etched "
PALADIN H.G.W.T. 1959 SIDE 1" whereas the second issue modifies this as "
WIRE PALADIN H.G.W.T. 79591 SIDE 1" where "
WIRE" is added to reflect the new label, "
PALADIN H.G.W.T." is crossed out with double lines, and "
1959" is modified to give "
79591" (which seems no longer to make any sense). For each pressing, matrix numbers on Side 2 of Disc 1 through Side 10 of Disc 5 are
basically the same as those of Side 1 with the correct corresponding Side numbers, with the exception of Side 10 which has an additional hand-scratched inscription "
DYLAN’S BETTER" on both the first and second releases.
 |
Modified matrix numbers on Side 1
of Disc 1 of the 2nd pressing copy. |
Box packages:
As for the front cover, the vertically running album title is moved to
the left towards the hinge of the box on the second pressing. There are also a few
distinguished differences on the back cover design of the second
pressing:
(1) it has two silver ornaments (not gold as the
Last Ride In A Pink Cadillac booklet says)
flanking the large stage shot;
(2) the color is changed from gold to
silver for the album description and reproduced "Paladin" business card
design printed on the center column; and
(3) the copyright description is added
on the bottom center. It is also noticeable that front and back cover
images of live stage shots show slightly different tones between the
first and second pressings (the first is somewhat darker).
 |
Although two box packages look similar, the differences are apparent (see main text for the explanations).
Note that, in marked contrast to the pirate copy, these boxes are made of glossy high-quality paper. |
While the above-mentioned differences are substantial, what caught my eye the most in the description of the
Last Ride In A Pink Cadillac booklet is the line "
first pressing came with two colour photos,"
which seems to be NOT necessarily true for all copies of the first
pressing, but applied to a very limited fraction of such copies.
— To be continued.
~Last Ride In A Pink Cadillac booklet is the line "first pressing came with two colour photos," which seems to be NOT necessarily true for all copies of the first pressing, but applied to a very limited fraction of such copies.
ReplyDeleteThe booklet must be referring to the first pressing of the Italian counterfeit not of the original with the HGWT 1959 matrix or the repress with the Wire P 79591 matrix because neither of those had any colour photos.
Yes Wire was Paladin's first name in the Have Gun Will Travel TV series.
You also didn't mention that all copies of the original and repress had an oversized clear plastic bag over the box to protect it tho I never see it included on used copies for sale.
Also the correct term for the Italian 'copy' is counterfeit (of the 5 LP bootleg) not pirate.
I don't know how many copies of the Italian counterfeit were pressed but the original and repress had 5,000 each.
Thank you for the great info that cannot be known unless the AUTHORITY discloses it.
ReplyDeleteAny more substantial info available such as photo or scanned images of the GENUINE original pressing?
~Thank you for the great info
ReplyDeleteYou're welcome
~Any more substantial info available such as photo or scanned images of the GENUINE original pressing?
You already posted a photo or scan of the GENUINE original pressing the one on top where the title is farther away from the spine than the 2nd improved box and the back has all gold lettering.
Original labels were the ones where Side 1, 3, ,5 ,7 ,9 has the songs listed for both sides of those discs
and on side 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 was the (gunman)photo of Wire Paladin
Also, you didn't mention some other subtle improvements on the 2nd or redone box.
1. On the front of the box, the back of the guitar tuning pegs is cleaned up
2. The printing on the front cover is lighter too (not just the back) so you can now see the headstock of the guitar just under the tuning pegs
2. The back cover was professionally typeset.
3. Both boxes were hinged, I don't know about the Italian counterfeit
Frankly, I'm confused by one particular point of your comments. In the first post, you said that neither original nor repress had any colour photos. Then in response to my question as to what the "GENUINE" original looks like, you said that a picture of the "GENUINE" original copy is already up on this blog. However, the pictured copy in my possession does come with color photos. Could you let me know if I misunderstood what you meant?
ReplyDelete~No you didn't misunderstand what I meant.
ReplyDeleteReminds me of someone posting that some copies of Blondie - Little Doll came with a printed inner sleeve when in fact none of them did.
So if you got color pictures in the original box that you posted above then someone put them in there but the person who made the original and repress did not put any colour photos in any of the boxes.
Some distributor or someone who got some copies put them in there. If so then I guess it is fair or accurate to say that some came with color photos but there is no question that the person who made the box set did not ever put any colour photos in any of them
Thank you for your reply, I caught your point. Then I am tempted to ask a question. May I ask you why you are so sure about the person who made the box set did not ever put any colour photos in any of them ?
ReplyDelete~May I ask you why you are so sure about the person who made the box set did not ever put any colour photos in any of them ?
ReplyDeleteBecause I asked the person who made it.
I hesitate to mention this but the person who put it out was not a Springsteen fan (hence the comment written in the run out grooves 'Dylan's better') as opposed to the 'Hoffman ave.' guy who of course was a huge Springsteen fan.
But the guy did take pride in his work and did do a good job in fact the reason for the revised box was he was not happy with the 1st one so spent the time and money to make some improvements.
Wow, thanks once again for top-notch information! Now I convincingly understood why the various aspects on this release, such as the labels, packaging and matrix numbers, are differentiated between the first and second pressings. It also becomes clear why that hand-etched, short note was made on the dead wax of Side 10. Supposedly, this title is the only his/her output on Springsteen, isn’t this? One aspect you mentioned but I have not seen yet is that the box package is originally protected by an over-sized clear plastic bag. Both my first and second pressing copies do not accompany it, which means that they are second-handed and might explain why color snapshots were included.
ReplyDeleteP.S. The Italian counterfeit also reproduces the hinged box. However, the photo images are of way poorer quality and the box itself is much more sturdier as reported in the Pink Cadillac booklet.
The labels were changed and matrix altered for paranoia reasons so instead of the actual song titles they consisted of a line/lyric from the song.
ReplyDeleteThe person who made the set only made about 10 different records and yes This Gun's For Hire is the only Springsteen one.
All copies of each of the sets included the over-sized clear plastic bag so I don't know why I've never seen any used ones with it.
So probably the other 9 titles are also equally superb all-around production although I have never bought or obtained any bootleg other than Bruceleg.
ReplyDeleteAs I quoted from an article featured on the Backstreets magazine (#16 issued in 1986), this title was reportedly sold at a relatively low price compared to Europe-pressed bootleg releases. Do you remember what a typical list price was at record shops in the US? I remember here in the Far East, it was priced around at least 15,000 JPY when it first appeared in Japanese markets at some time in 1985. Although drastic changes in USD-to-JPY exchange rate do not allow simple conversion back then (early 1985, $1 USD = 250 JPY; late 1986, $1 USD = 160 JPY), I guess it was around $60 USD assuming that it was out early 1985.
No not all the other 9 titles would be considered superb all around production. Interesting because the 1st one the guy did and the last one both had insert covers.. the only ones that had insert covers.
ReplyDeleteOnly one was a full color cover. 2 of them had 1,000 or less copies pressed. 3 of the 10 or so years later came out officially.
The reason the This Gun's set was relatively cheap was because most went to a wholesaler on the east coast and he bought them for $9.00 each. I think he re-wholesaled it for $15.00 so probably most stores sold them for $30.00.
I am pretty sure it came out in late 84 not early 85.
Then, I wonder if there is any particular reason for the deluxe package of the This Guns set?
ReplyDeleteIn light of your information, the list price obviously increased double or triple after the import. I cannot help reminiscing about how much we were ripped off here even though back then I knew that vinyl bootleg industry was almost exclusively seller’s market.
Thank you for the correction on when it was issued. The performance was captured in Philly and the box was bought by an East coast wholesale. Do these facts indicate it is of East coast origin?
~Then, I wonder if there is any particular reason for the deluxe package of the This Guns set?
ReplyDeleteNo particular reason other than it seemed natural for a a 5 disc set seemed to come ina box set. As far as it being considered a 'superb package' I'm not sure I would classify it as that but certainly an EXC package but I think the other records the guy did would also be concerned EXC at least on one or more levels
~In light of your information, the list price obviously increased double or triple after the import. I cannot help reminiscing about how much we were ripped off here even though back then I knew that vinyl bootleg industry was almost exclusively seller’s market.
It was and I suppose still is rather normal for imports of boot LPs into any country to sell for double what domestics sell for or what they sell for in the origin of where they were made because so few tend to get imported and the cost of shipping for the person who imports it. Well this applies to USA and Euro records
probably not so true for one European country sold in another European country
~Thank you for the correction on when it was issued. The performance was captured in Philly and the box was bought by an East coast wholesale. Do these facts indicate it is of East coast origin?
No not an east coast origin.
> No particular reason other than it seemed natural for a 5 disc set seemed to come in a box set.
ReplyDeleteI think the package is still something special because almost all of the Bruceleg boxes, released by the end of 1984, came in a plain black or white box with one or two inserts only. An example from the BORN IN THE USA Tour is BRON IN THE CINCINNATI, a 4-LP box that also appeared in late 1984. Before the BORN IN THE USA Tour, I can think of only a few box titles that came in a well designed package, such as ALL THOSE YEARS 10-LP and HAPPY NEW YEAR 5-LP box sets. If my memory is correct, all the other box sets released by the end of 1984 are just plain boxes with inserts.
> No not an east coast origin.
So, most probably it came out from the other coast.
At my local store in northern NJ, I think This Gun sold for $50 or $60. They carried the European and Japanese titles which were quite expensive. The 2LP sets were $50 each (Holsten Team, Osaka) and $100 for the 4LP sets (Do You Love Me, Wembley, etc). Happy New Year and The Night They Drove old 80 Down were $125. Very expensive because I think these guys used to drive into NYC and buy stuff there to resell in NJ. I couldn't do that in my teen years sadly.
ReplyDeleteCommon single LPs from the US were relatively inexpensive, though slightly more than an official single LP. For example, Don't Look Back, E Ticket, Bruce Juice, FOTF, etc, those were $10-$12. Common US made doubles like Live at the Roxy Theater Hollywood 78, You Can Trust Your Car, Boss in Boston, etc were $15-$16. Common triple LPs, Winterland, PDR, Nassau, Great White Boss were $25.
I remember sometime in early 84 they got in two copies of The River that Talks and I think it was priced at $35. I sold a bunch of LPs and did some chores to save enough and when I went in to buy it, both copies were sold. Very bummed. But hey, now I have four of them, including the red vinyl version!!
I was going to say the one pic with the behind the stage seats visible looked a little like Tacoma, so reading the potential west coast origin might make sense. I don't have a copy with pictures, although my Last Night in the East has 3 pics I think. . .
ReplyDeleteHi, What about the quality sound of the 2nd edition?
ReplyDeleteI don’t see differences, though not by strict comparison. The first and second pressings use the same master lacquers based on the matrix inscriptions (i.e., The matrix numbers of the first pressing were scratched out on the second edition).
Delete